Quantcast

ice melange or sikkusak

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
13 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

ice melange or sikkusak

Jason Amundson
Dear Cryolisters,

There has been some discussion in recent years as to whether sea ice
and/or dense packs of icebergs can affect the stability of
marine-terminating glaciers. Within these discussions people have
typically used the terms "ice melange" or the supposedly Greenlandic
term "sikkusak" to refer to a dense pack of icebergs. I would like to
see us converge toward a single accepted expression.

I have tended to favor the term ice melange for the following reasons:
1. There is a historical precedence for using the word in the literature
on Antarctic glaciology.
2. Melange means "mixture" and is therefore a nicely descriptive word.
3. Using "ice melange" as a common noun cannot be viewed to be offensive
in the same way as in changing the name of a specific place. As an
example, I suspect that nobody will ever use the term "sermeq" to refer
to a glacier in scientific literature except when referring to a
specific glacier.
4. Nobody that I've talked to in West Greenland seems to know the word
sikkusak (maybe because sikkusak isn't as common there as in East
Greenland?).
5. There is also the question as to whether or not a "sikkusak" in
Greenland is the same thing as an "ice melange" in Antarctica. (I
suspect any differences would be subtle.)

Regarding point 4, I've recently contacted the Greenlandic Language
Secretariat for a clarification. They told me that I probably meant the
word "sikkussaq", which means packed by ice or surrounded by sea ice.
The word is derived from the word "siku", which means sea ice. Its not
yet clear to me if "sikkussaq" is a noun or an adjective. At any rate,
the word definitely implies that sea ice is an important component. A
dense pack of icebergs does not necessarily consist of sea ice, although
sea ice can help to provide structural rigidity. In my mind, then, it
seems that sikkussaq is a stricter definition than what is often
(currently) desired in scientific discussion.

Also, just to convey the complexity of Greenlandic, I was told that the
word "sikuusaq" means artificial sea ice. Non-Greenlanders need to be
very careful when using Greenlandic words!

I would be very curious to know if any of you have talked with East
Greenlanders regarding sikkussaq. In what context is the word used?

If there is good motivation for switching to the term sikkussaq then I'm
all for it. At the end of the day the physics doesn't care about the
linguistics, as long as we are talking about the same material. For the
moment, though, I'm going to stick with ice melange.

Cheers,
Jason Amundson

P.S. Please respond either directly to me or to the cryolist discussion.
I will summarize the responses in a subsequent e-mail.
_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

P. Wadhams
Re sikussak (not sikkusak).
   This term was first proposed for an ice type by Lauge Koch (1945) in his
classic work "The East Greenland Ice" (Medd. om Groenland, Bd 130). It is
an Inuit term used in East Greenland meaning "ice like ocean ice" and
referring specifically to very old fast ice which has attained extreme
thickness through age, low ocean heat flux (eg through being in a fjord),
and/or high precipitation (again, for example, in a fjord). Specific cases
of sikussak occur in Independence Fjord and other fjords in the far north
of Greenland. Sikussak has nothing whatever to doing with icebergs or
melanges thereof. Sikussak was fully described in my book "Ice in the
Ocean" (Wadhams, 2000), with a photograph of it (p 107), a salinity profile
through a sikussak core (p 108), and descriptions of other areas where
sikussak-like ice is observed, e.g. fast ice formed in embayments of
Antarctic ice shelves that are created by break-out of icebergs (photo
p.106), Best wishes Peter Wadhams



On Oct 28 2010, Jason Amundson wrote:

>Dear Cryolisters,
>
>There has been some discussion in recent years as to whether sea ice
>and/or dense packs of icebergs can affect the stability of
>marine-terminating glaciers. Within these discussions people have
>typically used the terms "ice melange" or the supposedly Greenlandic
>term "sikkusak" to refer to a dense pack of icebergs. I would like to
>see us converge toward a single accepted expression.
>
>I have tended to favor the term ice melange for the following reasons:
>1. There is a historical precedence for using the word in the literature
>on Antarctic glaciology.
>2. Melange means "mixture" and is therefore a nicely descriptive word.
>3. Using "ice melange" as a common noun cannot be viewed to be offensive
>in the same way as in changing the name of a specific place. As an
>example, I suspect that nobody will ever use the term "sermeq" to refer
>to a glacier in scientific literature except when referring to a
>specific glacier.
>4. Nobody that I've talked to in West Greenland seems to know the word
>sikkusak (maybe because sikkusak isn't as common there as in East
>Greenland?).
>5. There is also the question as to whether or not a "sikkusak" in
>Greenland is the same thing as an "ice melange" in Antarctica. (I
>suspect any differences would be subtle.)
>
>Regarding point 4, I've recently contacted the Greenlandic Language
>Secretariat for a clarification. They told me that I probably meant the
>word "sikkussaq", which means packed by ice or surrounded by sea ice.
>The word is derived from the word "siku", which means sea ice. Its not
>yet clear to me if "sikkussaq" is a noun or an adjective. At any rate,
>the word definitely implies that sea ice is an important component. A
>dense pack of icebergs does not necessarily consist of sea ice, although
>sea ice can help to provide structural rigidity. In my mind, then, it
>seems that sikkussaq is a stricter definition than what is often
>(currently) desired in scientific discussion.
>
>Also, just to convey the complexity of Greenlandic, I was told that the
>word "sikuusaq" means artificial sea ice. Non-Greenlanders need to be
>very careful when using Greenlandic words!
>
>I would be very curious to know if any of you have talked with East
>Greenlanders regarding sikkussaq. In what context is the word used?
>
>If there is good motivation for switching to the term sikkussaq then I'm
>all for it. At the end of the day the physics doesn't care about the
>linguistics, as long as we are talking about the same material. For the
>moment, though, I'm going to stick with ice melange.
>
>Cheers,
>Jason Amundson
>
>P.S. Please respond either directly to me or to the cryolist discussion.
>I will summarize the responses in a subsequent e-mail.
>_______________________________________________
>You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
>To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
>To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
>
_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

ihowat
In reply to this post by Jason Amundson
Jason,

Mélange is a term already used in geology to describe a breccia with
exceptionally large range in grain sizes (from clay to boulders 100's
of meters long) produced through regional-scale shearing at the
leading edge of a subduction zone. The iceberg/sea ice mix we're
discussing seems to be a good enough glaciological analogue to this -
a mix of all-sized bergs and bits produced by shearing and fracture at
the ice front and "lithified" to varying degrees by sea ice.

Cheers,
Ian H.



On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Jason Amundson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Cryolisters,
>
> There has been some discussion in recent years as to whether sea ice and/or
> dense packs of icebergs can affect the stability of marine-terminating
> glaciers. Within these discussions people have typically used the terms "ice
> melange" or the supposedly Greenlandic term "sikkusak" to refer to a dense
> pack of icebergs. I would like to see us converge toward a single accepted
> expression.
>
> I have tended to favor the term ice melange for the following reasons:
> 1. There is a historical precedence for using the word in the literature on
> Antarctic glaciology.
> 2. Melange means "mixture" and is therefore a nicely descriptive word.
> 3. Using "ice melange" as a common noun cannot be viewed to be offensive in
> the same way as in changing the name of a specific place. As an example, I
> suspect that nobody will ever use the term "sermeq" to refer to a glacier in
> scientific literature except when referring to a specific glacier.
> 4. Nobody that I've talked to in West Greenland seems to know the word
> sikkusak (maybe because sikkusak isn't as common there as in East
> Greenland?).
> 5. There is also the question as to whether or not a "sikkusak" in Greenland
> is the same thing as an "ice melange" in Antarctica. (I suspect any
> differences would be subtle.)
>
> Regarding point 4, I've recently contacted the Greenlandic Language
> Secretariat for a clarification. They told me that I probably meant the word
> "sikkussaq", which means packed by ice or surrounded by sea ice. The word is
> derived from the word "siku", which means sea ice. Its not yet clear to me
> if "sikkussaq" is a noun or an adjective. At any rate, the word definitely
> implies that sea ice is an important component. A dense pack of icebergs
> does not necessarily consist of sea ice, although sea ice can help to
> provide structural rigidity. In my mind, then, it seems that sikkussaq is a
> stricter definition than what is often (currently) desired in scientific
> discussion.
>
> Also, just to convey the complexity of Greenlandic, I was told that the word
> "sikuusaq" means artificial sea ice. Non-Greenlanders need to be very
> careful when using Greenlandic words!
>
> I would be very curious to know if any of you have talked with East
> Greenlanders regarding sikkussaq. In what context is the word used?
>
> If there is good motivation for switching to the term sikkussaq then I'm all
> for it. At the end of the day the physics doesn't care about the
> linguistics, as long as we are talking about the same material. For the
> moment, though, I'm going to stick with ice melange.
>
> Cheers,
> Jason Amundson
>
> P.S. Please respond either directly to me or to the cryolist discussion. I
> will summarize the responses in a subsequent e-mail.
> _______________________________________________
> You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
> To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
> To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

Martin O'Leary
In reply to this post by P. Wadhams
I originally sent my response directly to Jason, but perhaps the list
more generally would be interested in what I found. I think I can beat
Peter's 1945 citation by thirty years - Knud Rasmussen's 1915 report
of the First Thule Expedition, (Medd. om Groenland, Bd 51):

[ We had now, moreover, realised that he could not have touched at
Cape Glacier itself, on account of the "sikussaq" (fragments of inland
ice packed on the fjord in the course of years) which was absolutely
impassable in the neighbourhood of Academy Glacier, owing to the
enormous number of interconnecting fissures. ]

Early authors seem to use "sikussak" and "sikussaq" fairly
interchangeably, although Rasmussen, as the son of the author of one
of the earliest Greenlandic dictionaries, may have known what he was
talking about.

The description given by Rasmussen definitely seems to match up with
the material which has been discussed in the context of buttressing
tidewater glaciers. However the location seems to match better with
what Peter describes in his book - very old sea ice which has been
added to by snowfall.

I'm intrigued by the suggestion in several places, including Peter's
book, that the word means "fjord ice like ocean ice" - this seems like
an awful lot of meaning to squeeze into one word, especially
considering that "siku" on its own means "ice" or "to freeze". I
haven't been able to find the word in any of several Greenlandic
dictionaries, although I have found several other derivative forms of
"siku", nor can I find any information about a "-ssak" or "-ssaq"
suffix. Does anyone know any more about where this supposed etymology
originates?

I enclose my original response to Jason below, which includes some
more details, including an earlier citation from Koch.

Martin



Hi Jason,

I've been looking into this issue a little as a (very parenthetical)
part of my PhD research. As best I can tell, the term was first used
in English by Knud Rasmussen in the report of the First Thule
Expedition in NW Greenland, 1912. An early description come from Lauge
Koch in the Geographical Review (1926):



Sikussak is an Eskimo name meaning "very old ice." It was first
used by Knud Rasmussen and Peter Freuchen in the report of the
First Thule Expedition without any very clear definition. Later J. P.
Koch described the same form occurring in Frederick Hyde Fjord as
paleocrystic ice. After my journey in 1917, during which I had ample
opportunity of observing the sikussak in both winter and summer
phases, I assumed it to be a transition form between glacier ice and
sea ice. During my journey in 1921 and 1922, however, it proved that
everywhere there was a very sharp and easily perceptible line of
demarcation between the floating glacier ice and sikussak, and finally
there were gradual transitions between sikussak proper and the some-
what younger sea ice. This means that the sikussak was originally
sea ice that has become rougher and rougher in the course of successive
summers. After two to five years the ice has become quite fresh, and
its structure is increasingly granular until it cannot be distinguished
from glacier ice. The older the sikussak the rougher it is. Between
several frozen fresh-water lakes rise walls of granulated ice, the height
of which is about one meter. In the depressions in their surfaces
snow accumulates in winter. In the summer the snow melts, but
there is no outlet for the water from the lakes; and thus the winter
snow, though through a melting process, enters as a component in
the surface of the ice. The maximum thickness of the ice is most
probably seven to eight meters.

Sikussak ice has only a limited geographical distribution. The
largest area occurs in the central part of the north coast where all
the fiords are filled with sikussak. Typical and very old sikussak is
found in Frederick Hyde Fjord, in Bessels Fjord, and just north of
the Humboldt Glacier. This ice is formed only in calm fiords. It helps
to prevent the calving of icebergs from the glaciers and is the reason
why they float on the sea. It is often difficult to distinguish floating
sea ice from the sikussak. To be called sikussak the ice must be at
least 25 years old.



You'll note the spelling "sikussak", which isn't one you mentioned,
although I don't believe that the standard orthography was something
that Rasmussen was particularly bothered about - although he was a
speaker of Greenlandic from an early age. Nevertheless, geminate
consonants (represented in the standard orthography by doubling, e.g.
"ss", "kk") are, as I understand it, quite significant in the Inuit
languages - this may have something to do with the reason that you
haven't been able to find anything relevant. It's also quite possible
that the language from which the word is originally derived is not
what we now call Greenlandic (Kalaallisut) - Inuktun, Inuttut and
other Inuit languages are possibilities.

In my own work, after much vacillation, I've taken to using the term
ice melange to denote any material composed of a heterogeneous mixture
of ice types, while using sikussak to specifically refer to the
mixture of sea ice and glacier ice which forms at the calving face of
tidewater glaciers - which seems to correspond with both the earlier
usage, and contemporary authors.

With regard to your reasons for using the term "ice melange", I can't
fault you, except to say that I'm pretty sure that sikussak has
historical precedence, going back nearly a hundred years. I'd probably
agree that the term may not be strictly applicable in an Antarctic
context, although I can't see why Antarctic tidewater glaciers
shouldn't produce the same material that Greenlandic glaciers do. On
the other hand, I've heard things like the mess produced by the
breakup of ice shelves described as melange, and I certainly wouldn't
advocate the use of sikussak here, although we may want a more
specific term than melange in this case as well.

Anyway, you've now inspired me to look more deeply into this issue,
particularly the origins and early usage of the term. I'll let you
know what I find.

Hope some of this is helpful,
Martin
_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

Stephen Ackley
Re: [CRYOLIST] ice melange or sikkusak
Martin,  Thanks for an interesting discussion.  Concerning your
comment near the end, however, there may be some distinction in the
Antarctic case.  You said:
"I'd probably agree that the term may not be strictly applicable in an Antarctic
context, although I can't see why Antarctic tidewater glaciers
shouldn't produce the same material that Greenlandic glaciers do."
 
Prior to that the description includes the extensive melting of surface snow
and refreezing that forms the rough surface of the Greenland sikussak. For most of the
Antarctic coastline however, surface melt of this type is not seen, leading
to continued snow accumulation and formation of ice shelves that are not
fed by inland ice, but are stationary.  It may be that most of the coastline
forms ice shelves in this way, with the exceptions of the major outflow
areas (Ross, Filchner Ronne, Amery, etc) so the genesis process is
somewhat different than the fjord structures in Greenland, in my opinion.
 
Steve Ackley
 
 


From: [hidden email] on behalf of Martin O'Leary
Sent: Fri 10/29/2010 8:54 AM
To: P. Wadhams
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [CRYOLIST] ice melange or sikkusak

I originally sent my response directly to Jason, but perhaps the list
more generally would be interested in what I found. I think I can beat
Peter's 1945 citation by thirty years - Knud Rasmussen's 1915 report
of the First Thule Expedition, (Medd. om Groenland, Bd 51):

[ We had now, moreover, realised that he could not have touched at
Cape Glacier itself, on account of the "sikussaq" (fragments of inland
ice packed on the fjord in the course of years) which was absolutely
impassable in the neighbourhood of Academy Glacier, owing to the
enormous number of interconnecting fissures. ]

Early authors seem to use "sikussak" and "sikussaq" fairly
interchangeably, although Rasmussen, as the son of the author of one
of the earliest Greenlandic dictionaries, may have known what he was
talking about.

The description given by Rasmussen definitely seems to match up with
the material which has been discussed in the context of buttressing
tidewater glaciers. However the location seems to match better with
what Peter describes in his book - very old sea ice which has been
added to by snowfall.

I'm intrigued by the suggestion in several places, including Peter's
book, that the word means "fjord ice like ocean ice" - this seems like
an awful lot of meaning to squeeze into one word, especially
considering that "siku" on its own means "ice" or "to freeze". I
haven't been able to find the word in any of several Greenlandic
dictionaries, although I have found several other derivative forms of
"siku", nor can I find any information about a "-ssak" or "-ssaq"
suffix. Does anyone know any more about where this supposed etymology
originates?

I enclose my original response to Jason below, which includes some
more details, including an earlier citation from Koch.

Martin



Hi Jason,

I've been looking into this issue a little as a (very parenthetical)
part of my PhD research. As best I can tell, the term was first used
in English by Knud Rasmussen in the report of the First Thule
Expedition in NW Greenland, 1912. An early description come from Lauge
Koch in the Geographical Review (1926):



Sikussak is an Eskimo name meaning "very old ice." It was first
used by Knud Rasmussen and Peter Freuchen in the report of the
First Thule Expedition without any very clear definition. Later J. P.
Koch described the same form occurring in Frederick Hyde Fjord as
paleocrystic ice. After my journey in 1917, during which I had ample
opportunity of observing the sikussak in both winter and summer
phases, I assumed it to be a transition form between glacier ice and
sea ice. During my journey in 1921 and 1922, however, it proved that
everywhere there was a very sharp and easily perceptible line of
demarcation between the floating glacier ice and sikussak, and finally
there were gradual transitions between sikussak proper and the some-
what younger sea ice. This means that the sikussak was originally
sea ice that has become rougher and rougher in the course of successive
summers. After two to five years the ice has become quite fresh, and
its structure is increasingly granular until it cannot be distinguished
from glacier ice. The older the sikussak the rougher it is. Between
several frozen fresh-water lakes rise walls of granulated ice, the height
of which is about one meter. In the depressions in their surfaces
snow accumulates in winter. In the summer the snow melts, but
there is no outlet for the water from the lakes; and thus the winter
snow, though through a melting process, enters as a component in
the surface of the ice. The maximum thickness of the ice is most
probably seven to eight meters.

Sikussak ice has only a limited geographical distribution. The
largest area occurs in the central part of the north coast where all
the fiords are filled with sikussak. Typical and very old sikussak is
found in Frederick Hyde Fjord, in Bessels Fjord, and just north of
the Humboldt Glacier. This ice is formed only in calm fiords. It helps
to prevent the calving of icebergs from the glaciers and is the reason
why they float on the sea. It is often difficult to distinguish floating
sea ice from the sikussak. To be called sikussak the ice must be at
least 25 years old.



You'll note the spelling "sikussak", which isn't one you mentioned,
although I don't believe that the standard orthography was something
that Rasmussen was particularly bothered about - although he was a
speaker of Greenlandic from an early age. Nevertheless, geminate
consonants (represented in the standard orthography by doubling, e.g.
"ss", "kk") are, as I understand it, quite significant in the Inuit
languages - this may have something to do with the reason that you
haven't been able to find anything relevant. It's also quite possible
that the language from which the word is originally derived is not
what we now call Greenlandic (Kalaallisut) - Inuktun, Inuttut and
other Inuit languages are possibilities.

In my own work, after much vacillation, I've taken to using the term
ice melange to denote any material composed of a heterogeneous mixture
of ice types, while using sikussak to specifically refer to the
mixture of sea ice and glacier ice which forms at the calving face of
tidewater glaciers - which seems to correspond with both the earlier
usage, and contemporary authors.

With regard to your reasons for using the term "ice melange", I can't
fault you, except to say that I'm pretty sure that sikussak has
historical precedence, going back nearly a hundred years. I'd probably
agree that the term may not be strictly applicable in an Antarctic
context, although I can't see why Antarctic tidewater glaciers
shouldn't produce the same material that Greenlandic glaciers do. On
the other hand, I've heard things like the mess produced by the
breakup of ice shelves described as melange, and I certainly wouldn't
advocate the use of sikussak here, although we may want a more
specific term than melange in this case as well.

Anyway, you've now inspired me to look more deeply into this issue,
particularly the origins and early usage of the term. I'll let you
know what I find.

Hope some of this is helpful,
Martin
_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]


_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

Ted Scambos-2

Hi Steve, everyone -
The areas of greatest similarity to Greenland are in the fjords and
small ice shelves of the Antarctic Peninsula, where things can get
pretty, well, sikussaqy. Sikussaqious. Sikussaqish? Um, sikussaq-like.

Ted


On Sat, 30 Oct 2010, Stephen Ackley wrote:

> Martin,  Thanks for an interesting discussion.  Concerning your
> comment near the end, however, there may be some distinction in the
> Antarctic case.  You said:
> "I'd probably agree that the term may not be strictly applicable in an Antarctic
> context, although I can't see why Antarctic tidewater glaciers
> shouldn't produce the same material that Greenlandic glaciers do."
>
> Prior to that the description includes the extensive melting of surface snow
> and refreezing that forms the rough surface of the Greenland sikussak. For most of the
> Antarctic coastline however, surface melt of this type is not seen, leading
> to continued snow accumulation and formation of ice shelves that are not
> fed by inland ice, but are stationary.  It may be that most of the coastline
> forms ice shelves in this way, with the exceptions of the major outflow
> areas (Ross, Filchner Ronne, Amery, etc) so the genesis process is
> somewhat different than the fjord structures in Greenland, in my opinion.
>
> Steve Ackley
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: [hidden email] on behalf of Martin O'Leary
> Sent: Fri 10/29/2010 8:54 AM
> To: P. Wadhams
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [CRYOLIST] ice melange or sikkusak
>
>
>
> I originally sent my response directly to Jason, but perhaps the list
> more generally would be interested in what I found. I think I can beat
> Peter's 1945 citation by thirty years - Knud Rasmussen's 1915 report
> of the First Thule Expedition, (Medd. om Groenland, Bd 51):
>
> [ We had now, moreover, realised that he could not have touched at
> Cape Glacier itself, on account of the "sikussaq" (fragments of inland
> ice packed on the fjord in the course of years) which was absolutely
> impassable in the neighbourhood of Academy Glacier, owing to the
> enormous number of interconnecting fissures. ]
>
> Early authors seem to use "sikussak" and "sikussaq" fairly
> interchangeably, although Rasmussen, as the son of the author of one
> of the earliest Greenlandic dictionaries, may have known what he was
> talking about.
>
> The description given by Rasmussen definitely seems to match up with
> the material which has been discussed in the context of buttressing
> tidewater glaciers. However the location seems to match better with
> what Peter describes in his book - very old sea ice which has been
> added to by snowfall.
>
> I'm intrigued by the suggestion in several places, including Peter's
> book, that the word means "fjord ice like ocean ice" - this seems like
> an awful lot of meaning to squeeze into one word, especially
> considering that "siku" on its own means "ice" or "to freeze". I
> haven't been able to find the word in any of several Greenlandic
> dictionaries, although I have found several other derivative forms of
> "siku", nor can I find any information about a "-ssak" or "-ssaq"
> suffix. Does anyone know any more about where this supposed etymology
> originates?
>
> I enclose my original response to Jason below, which includes some
> more details, including an earlier citation from Koch.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> I've been looking into this issue a little as a (very parenthetical)
> part of my PhD research. As best I can tell, the term was first used
> in English by Knud Rasmussen in the report of the First Thule
> Expedition in NW Greenland, 1912. An early description come from Lauge
> Koch in the Geographical Review (1926):
>
>
>
> Sikussak is an Eskimo name meaning "very old ice." It was first
> used by Knud Rasmussen and Peter Freuchen in the report of the
> First Thule Expedition without any very clear definition. Later J. P.
> Koch described the same form occurring in Frederick Hyde Fjord as
> paleocrystic ice. After my journey in 1917, during which I had ample
> opportunity of observing the sikussak in both winter and summer
> phases, I assumed it to be a transition form between glacier ice and
> sea ice. During my journey in 1921 and 1922, however, it proved that
> everywhere there was a very sharp and easily perceptible line of
> demarcation between the floating glacier ice and sikussak, and finally
> there were gradual transitions between sikussak proper and the some-
> what younger sea ice. This means that the sikussak was originally
> sea ice that has become rougher and rougher in the course of successive
> summers. After two to five years the ice has become quite fresh, and
> its structure is increasingly granular until it cannot be distinguished
> from glacier ice. The older the sikussak the rougher it is. Between
> several frozen fresh-water lakes rise walls of granulated ice, the height
> of which is about one meter. In the depressions in their surfaces
> snow accumulates in winter. In the summer the snow melts, but
> there is no outlet for the water from the lakes; and thus the winter
> snow, though through a melting process, enters as a component in
> the surface of the ice. The maximum thickness of the ice is most
> probably seven to eight meters.
>
> Sikussak ice has only a limited geographical distribution. The
> largest area occurs in the central part of the north coast where all
> the fiords are filled with sikussak. Typical and very old sikussak is
> found in Frederick Hyde Fjord, in Bessels Fjord, and just north of
> the Humboldt Glacier. This ice is formed only in calm fiords. It helps
> to prevent the calving of icebergs from the glaciers and is the reason
> why they float on the sea. It is often difficult to distinguish floating
> sea ice from the sikussak. To be called sikussak the ice must be at
> least 25 years old.
>
>
>
> You'll note the spelling "sikussak", which isn't one you mentioned,
> although I don't believe that the standard orthography was something
> that Rasmussen was particularly bothered about - although he was a
> speaker of Greenlandic from an early age. Nevertheless, geminate
> consonants (represented in the standard orthography by doubling, e.g.
> "ss", "kk") are, as I understand it, quite significant in the Inuit
> languages - this may have something to do with the reason that you
> haven't been able to find anything relevant. It's also quite possible
> that the language from which the word is originally derived is not
> what we now call Greenlandic (Kalaallisut) - Inuktun, Inuttut and
> other Inuit languages are possibilities.
>
> In my own work, after much vacillation, I've taken to using the term
> ice melange to denote any material composed of a heterogeneous mixture
> of ice types, while using sikussak to specifically refer to the
> mixture of sea ice and glacier ice which forms at the calving face of
> tidewater glaciers - which seems to correspond with both the earlier
> usage, and contemporary authors.
>
> With regard to your reasons for using the term "ice melange", I can't
> fault you, except to say that I'm pretty sure that sikussak has
> historical precedence, going back nearly a hundred years. I'd probably
> agree that the term may not be strictly applicable in an Antarctic
> context, although I can't see why Antarctic tidewater glaciers
> shouldn't produce the same material that Greenlandic glaciers do. On
> the other hand, I've heard things like the mess produced by the
> breakup of ice shelves described as melange, and I certainly wouldn't
> advocate the use of sikussak here, although we may want a more
> specific term than melange in this case as well.
>
> Anyway, you've now inspired me to look more deeply into this issue,
> particularly the origins and early usage of the term. I'll let you
> know what I find.
>
> Hope some of this is helpful,
> Martin
> _______________________________________________
> You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
> To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
> To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

Stephen Ackley
Re: [CRYOLIST] ice melange or sikkusak
Hi Ted,
 
The banana belt (of the Antarctic) exception is duly noted.   Just
wanted to draw the distinction that "all coastline of Antarctica" may not
look like "all coastline of Greenland" .
 
Steve


From: Ted Scambos [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sat 10/30/2010 7:18 PM
To: Stephen Ackley
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [CRYOLIST] ice melange or sikkusak


Hi Steve, everyone -
The areas of greatest similarity to Greenland are in the fjords and
small ice shelves of the Antarctic Peninsula, where things can get
pretty, well, sikussaqy. Sikussaqious. Sikussaqish? Um, sikussaq-like.

Ted


On Sat, 30 Oct 2010, Stephen Ackley wrote:


> Martin,  Thanks for an interesting discussion.  Concerning your
> comment near the end, however, there may be some distinction in the
> Antarctic case.  You said:
> "I'd probably agree that the term may not be strictly applicable in an Antarctic
> context, although I can't see why Antarctic tidewater glaciers
> shouldn't produce the same material that Greenlandic glaciers do."
>
> Prior to that the description includes the extensive melting of surface snow
> and refreezing that forms the rough surface of the Greenland sikussak. For most of the
> Antarctic coastline however, surface melt of this type is not seen, leading
> to continued snow accumulation and formation of ice shelves that are not
> fed by inland ice, but are stationary.  It may be that most of the coastline
> forms ice shelves in this way, with the exceptions of the major outflow
> areas (Ross, Filchner Ronne, Amery, etc) so the genesis process is
> somewhat different than the fjord structures in Greenland, in my opinion.
>
> Steve Ackley
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: [hidden email] on behalf of Martin O'Leary
> Sent: Fri 10/29/2010 8:54 AM
> To: P. Wadhams
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [CRYOLIST] ice melange or sikkusak
>
>
>
> I originally sent my response directly to Jason, but perhaps the list
> more generally would be interested in what I found. I think I can beat
> Peter's 1945 citation by thirty years - Knud Rasmussen's 1915 report
> of the First Thule Expedition, (Medd. om Groenland, Bd 51):
>
> [ We had now, moreover, realised that he could not have touched at
> Cape Glacier itself, on account of the "sikussaq" (fragments of inland
> ice packed on the fjord in the course of years) which was absolutely
> impassable in the neighbourhood of Academy Glacier, owing to the
> enormous number of interconnecting fissures. ]
>
> Early authors seem to use "sikussak" and "sikussaq" fairly
> interchangeably, although Rasmussen, as the son of the author of one
> of the earliest Greenlandic dictionaries, may have known what he was
> talking about.
>
> The description given by Rasmussen definitely seems to match up with
> the material which has been discussed in the context of buttressing
> tidewater glaciers. However the location seems to match better with
> what Peter describes in his book - very old sea ice which has been
> added to by snowfall.
>
> I'm intrigued by the suggestion in several places, including Peter's
> book, that the word means "fjord ice like ocean ice" - this seems like
> an awful lot of meaning to squeeze into one word, especially
> considering that "siku" on its own means "ice" or "to freeze". I
> haven't been able to find the word in any of several Greenlandic
> dictionaries, although I have found several other derivative forms of
> "siku", nor can I find any information about a "-ssak" or "-ssaq"
> suffix. Does anyone know any more about where this supposed etymology
> originates?
>
> I enclose my original response to Jason below, which includes some
> more details, including an earlier citation from Koch.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> I've been looking into this issue a little as a (very parenthetical)
> part of my PhD research. As best I can tell, the term was first used
> in English by Knud Rasmussen in the report of the First Thule
> Expedition in NW Greenland, 1912. An early description come from Lauge
> Koch in the Geographical Review (1926):
>
>
>
> Sikussak is an Eskimo name meaning "very old ice." It was first
> used by Knud Rasmussen and Peter Freuchen in the report of the
> First Thule Expedition without any very clear definition. Later J. P.
> Koch described the same form occurring in Frederick Hyde Fjord as
> paleocrystic ice. After my journey in 1917, during which I had ample
> opportunity of observing the sikussak in both winter and summer
> phases, I assumed it to be a transition form between glacier ice and
> sea ice. During my journey in 1921 and 1922, however, it proved that
> everywhere there was a very sharp and easily perceptible line of
> demarcation between the floating glacier ice and sikussak, and finally
> there were gradual transitions between sikussak proper and the some-
> what younger sea ice. This means that the sikussak was originally
> sea ice that has become rougher and rougher in the course of successive
> summers. After two to five years the ice has become quite fresh, and
> its structure is increasingly granular until it cannot be distinguished
> from glacier ice. The older the sikussak the rougher it is. Between
> several frozen fresh-water lakes rise walls of granulated ice, the height
> of which is about one meter. In the depressions in their surfaces
> snow accumulates in winter. In the summer the snow melts, but
> there is no outlet for the water from the lakes; and thus the winter
> snow, though through a melting process, enters as a component in
> the surface of the ice. The maximum thickness of the ice is most
> probably seven to eight meters.
>
> Sikussak ice has only a limited geographical distribution. The
> largest area occurs in the central part of the north coast where all
> the fiords are filled with sikussak. Typical and very old sikussak is
> found in Frederick Hyde Fjord, in Bessels Fjord, and just north of
> the Humboldt Glacier. This ice is formed only in calm fiords. It helps
> to prevent the calving of icebergs from the glaciers and is the reason
> why they float on the sea. It is often difficult to distinguish floating
> sea ice from the sikussak. To be called sikussak the ice must be at
> least 25 years old.
>
>
>
> You'll note the spelling "sikussak", which isn't one you mentioned,
> although I don't believe that the standard orthography was something
> that Rasmussen was particularly bothered about - although he was a
> speaker of Greenlandic from an early age. Nevertheless, geminate
> consonants (represented in the standard orthography by doubling, e.g.
> "ss", "kk") are, as I understand it, quite significant in the Inuit
> languages - this may have something to do with the reason that you
> haven't been able to find anything relevant. It's also quite possible
> that the language from which the word is originally derived is not
> what we now call Greenlandic (Kalaallisut) - Inuktun, Inuttut and
> other Inuit languages are possibilities.
>
> In my own work, after much vacillation, I've taken to using the term
> ice melange to denote any material composed of a heterogeneous mixture
> of ice types, while using sikussak to specifically refer to the
> mixture of sea ice and glacier ice which forms at the calving face of
> tidewater glaciers - which seems to correspond with both the earlier
> usage, and contemporary authors.
>
> With regard to your reasons for using the term "ice melange", I can't
> fault you, except to say that I'm pretty sure that sikussak has
> historical precedence, going back nearly a hundred years. I'd probably
> agree that the term may not be strictly applicable in an Antarctic
> context, although I can't see why Antarctic tidewater glaciers
> shouldn't produce the same material that Greenlandic glaciers do. On
> the other hand, I've heard things like the mess produced by the
> breakup of ice shelves described as melange, and I certainly wouldn't
> advocate the use of sikussak here, although we may want a more
> specific term than melange in this case as well.
>
> Anyway, you've now inspired me to look more deeply into this issue,
> particularly the origins and early usage of the term. I'll let you
> know what I find.
>
> Hope some of this is helpful,
> Martin
> _______________________________________________
> You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
> To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
> To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
>
>
>
>


_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

Ronald Weaver
A 'lurker' comment.

I have little personal experience to add to this and other recent cryolist discussions, but I do want to say that I have learned a great deal from reading them.  Thanks cryolist members for using this board  in such a thoughtful and informative way.

Ron Weaver


On Oct 31, 2010, at 8:46 AM, Stephen Ackley wrote:

Hi Ted,
 
The banana belt (of the Antarctic) exception is duly noted.   Just
wanted to draw the distinction that "all coastline of Antarctica" may not
look like "all coastline of Greenland" .
 
Steve


From: Ted Scambos [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sat 10/30/2010 7:18 PM
To: Stephen Ackley
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [CRYOLIST] ice melange or sikkusak


Hi Steve, everyone -
The areas of greatest similarity to Greenland are in the fjords and
small ice shelves of the Antarctic Peninsula, where things can get
pretty, well, sikussaqy. Sikussaqious. Sikussaqish? Um, sikussaq-like.

Ted


On Sat, 30 Oct 2010, Stephen Ackley wrote:


> Martin,  Thanks for an interesting discussion.  Concerning your
> comment near the end, however, there may be some distinction in the
> Antarctic case.  You said:
> "I'd probably agree that the term may not be strictly applicable in an Antarctic
> context, although I can't see why Antarctic tidewater glaciers
> shouldn't produce the same material that Greenlandic glaciers do."
>
> Prior to that the description includes the extensive melting of surface snow
> and refreezing that forms the rough surface of the Greenland sikussak. For most of the
> Antarctic coastline however, surface melt of this type is not seen, leading
> to continued snow accumulation and formation of ice shelves that are not
> fed by inland ice, but are stationary.  It may be that most of the coastline
> forms ice shelves in this way, with the exceptions of the major outflow
> areas (Ross, Filchner Ronne, Amery, etc) so the genesis process is
> somewhat different than the fjord structures in Greenland, in my opinion.
>
> Steve Ackley
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: [hidden email] on behalf of Martin O'Leary
> Sent: Fri 10/29/2010 8:54 AM
> To: P. Wadhams
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [CRYOLIST] ice melange or sikkusak
>
>
>
> I originally sent my response directly to Jason, but perhaps the list
> more generally would be interested in what I found. I think I can beat
> Peter's 1945 citation by thirty years - Knud Rasmussen's 1915 report
> of the First Thule Expedition, (Medd. om Groenland, Bd 51):
>
> [ We had now, moreover, realised that he could not have touched at
> Cape Glacier itself, on account of the "sikussaq" (fragments of inland
> ice packed on the fjord in the course of years) which was absolutely
> impassable in the neighbourhood of Academy Glacier, owing to the
> enormous number of interconnecting fissures. ]
>
> Early authors seem to use "sikussak" and "sikussaq" fairly
> interchangeably, although Rasmussen, as the son of the author of one
> of the earliest Greenlandic dictionaries, may have known what he was
> talking about.
>
> The description given by Rasmussen definitely seems to match up with
> the material which has been discussed in the context of buttressing
> tidewater glaciers. However the location seems to match better with
> what Peter describes in his book - very old sea ice which has been
> added to by snowfall.
>
> I'm intrigued by the suggestion in several places, including Peter's
> book, that the word means "fjord ice like ocean ice" - this seems like
> an awful lot of meaning to squeeze into one word, especially
> considering that "siku" on its own means "ice" or "to freeze". I
> haven't been able to find the word in any of several Greenlandic
> dictionaries, although I have found several other derivative forms of
> "siku", nor can I find any information about a "-ssak" or "-ssaq"
> suffix. Does anyone know any more about where this supposed etymology
> originates?
>
> I enclose my original response to Jason below, which includes some
> more details, including an earlier citation from Koch.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> I've been looking into this issue a little as a (very parenthetical)
> part of my PhD research. As best I can tell, the term was first used
> in English by Knud Rasmussen in the report of the First Thule
> Expedition in NW Greenland, 1912. An early description come from Lauge
> Koch in the Geographical Review (1926):
>
>
>
> Sikussak is an Eskimo name meaning "very old ice." It was first
> used by Knud Rasmussen and Peter Freuchen in the report of the
> First Thule Expedition without any very clear definition. Later J. P.
> Koch described the same form occurring in Frederick Hyde Fjord as
> paleocrystic ice. After my journey in 1917, during which I had ample
> opportunity of observing the sikussak in both winter and summer
> phases, I assumed it to be a transition form between glacier ice and
> sea ice. During my journey in 1921 and 1922, however, it proved that
> everywhere there was a very sharp and easily perceptible line of
> demarcation between the floating glacier ice and sikussak, and finally
> there were gradual transitions between sikussak proper and the some-
> what younger sea ice. This means that the sikussak was originally
> sea ice that has become rougher and rougher in the course of successive
> summers. After two to five years the ice has become quite fresh, and
> its structure is increasingly granular until it cannot be distinguished
> from glacier ice. The older the sikussak the rougher it is. Between
> several frozen fresh-water lakes rise walls of granulated ice, the height
> of which is about one meter. In the depressions in their surfaces
> snow accumulates in winter. In the summer the snow melts, but
> there is no outlet for the water from the lakes; and thus the winter
> snow, though through a melting process, enters as a component in
> the surface of the ice. The maximum thickness of the ice is most
> probably seven to eight meters.
>
> Sikussak ice has only a limited geographical distribution. The
> largest area occurs in the central part of the north coast where all
> the fiords are filled with sikussak. Typical and very old sikussak is
> found in Frederick Hyde Fjord, in Bessels Fjord, and just north of
> the Humboldt Glacier. This ice is formed only in calm fiords. It helps
> to prevent the calving of icebergs from the glaciers and is the reason
> why they float on the sea. It is often difficult to distinguish floating
> sea ice from the sikussak. To be called sikussak the ice must be at
> least 25 years old.
>
>
>
> You'll note the spelling "sikussak", which isn't one you mentioned,
> although I don't believe that the standard orthography was something
> that Rasmussen was particularly bothered about - although he was a
> speaker of Greenlandic from an early age. Nevertheless, geminate
> consonants (represented in the standard orthography by doubling, e.g.
> "ss", "kk") are, as I understand it, quite significant in the Inuit
> languages - this may have something to do with the reason that you
> haven't been able to find anything relevant. It's also quite possible
> that the language from which the word is originally derived is not
> what we now call Greenlandic (Kalaallisut) - Inuktun, Inuttut and
> other Inuit languages are possibilities.
>
> In my own work, after much vacillation, I've taken to using the term
> ice melange to denote any material composed of a heterogeneous mixture
> of ice types, while using sikussak to specifically refer to the
> mixture of sea ice and glacier ice which forms at the calving face of
> tidewater glaciers - which seems to correspond with both the earlier
> usage, and contemporary authors.
>
> With regard to your reasons for using the term "ice melange", I can't
> fault you, except to say that I'm pretty sure that sikussak has
> historical precedence, going back nearly a hundred years. I'd probably
> agree that the term may not be strictly applicable in an Antarctic
> context, although I can't see why Antarctic tidewater glaciers
> shouldn't produce the same material that Greenlandic glaciers do. On
> the other hand, I've heard things like the mess produced by the
> breakup of ice shelves described as melange, and I certainly wouldn't
> advocate the use of sikussak here, although we may want a more
> specific term than melange in this case as well.
>
> Anyway, you've now inspired me to look more deeply into this issue,
> particularly the origins and early usage of the term. I'll let you
> know what I find.
>
> Hope some of this is helpful,
> Martin
> _______________________________________________
> You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
> To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
> To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]

_____________________________________________________
Ron Weaver    DAAC Manager    National Snow and Ice Data Center
Campus Box 449, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, 80309
(Voice)303-492-7624 (cell-googlevoice) 303-834-7607
(Fax)303-492-2468  (email)weaverr(at)nsidc.org
_____________________________________________________


_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice mélange or sikkusak

Jason Amundson
In reply to this post by Stephen Ackley
Thank you for all of the detailed and insightful comments on ice
mélanges and sikkussaq. I was delighted to learn that some people have
put much more thought into this than I had! I'll attempt to summarize
the responses that I received, both on cryolist and via personal e-mail,
and then I suggest that we bring this cryolist discussion to a close.

 From the early reports from Knud Rasmussen, Peter Freuchen, and J.P.
Koch, it sounds as though sikkussaq is essentially old landfast sea ice
that has a rough surface, may contain icebergs, and does not exceed 10 m
in thickness. In some cases, it may be difficult to distinguish
sikkussaq from a dense pack of icebergs. Therefore sikkussaq does not
appear to be an appropriate word for the ice packs in "southern"
Greenland, where sea ice does not persist year round. These packs of
icebergs can also be 10s of meters to a few hundred meters thick.

There has been some discussion as to whether or not the term "ice
mélange" can be used to describe these dense packs of icebergs. For one,
it was pointed out to me that mélange is a French word and that I'm not
a French speaker... Since I didn't receive any angry e-mails from French
speakers, I'll assume that its okay to use mélange in that context. A
second issue is that ice mélange is also used to describe, for example,
the mixture of sea ice, snow, and icebergs that fills in rifts and helps
to glue them together. I think that ambiguity is okay, so long as ice
mélange is taken to mean a mixture of various types of ice with
unspecified scale or ratio. (In this case, sikkussaq may be a type of
ice mélange.) It may be that more specific definitions are
desired/needed. However, I suggest that we leave further discussion of
this for another day, as I suspect that it will be difficult to reach a
consensus.

Cheers,
Jason
_______________________________________________
You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
To send a message to the list, email [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

panpan2523
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by Jason Amundson
The Tory Burch wholesale will probably be your most helpful source where you will end up obtaining the bags and tracksuits at highly cheap pricing and you will probably be putting up the price tags by your own, that is planning to bring big bucks in your pockets. Therefore, nothing may be more appealing than to open a tory burch rattan clutch gold  outlet.To start up a brand new clients are don't assume all always easy, as on one hand you'll want finance as well as on the other hand you're in demand for a concept that you have to produce a plan also to implement the thought, practically. To generate an idea, it really is much more crucial that you arrange finances to start out your business, as if you are didn't generate a profitable and practical idea, then its fairly entirely possible that you might ruin your entire assets. The objective of opening Tory Burch shoes is to serve the needs of increasing number of customers with the products of this brand<br /><br /><br />The House of Chanel, more commonly known as Chanel, is a Parisian fashion house in France founded by Gabrielle Bonheur "Coco" Chanel. chanel medium flap bag dimensions  has been around since 1914. Every Stylish girl should know that your look will never be complete if it is without a great pair of sunglasses like Chanel. <br /><br />As expected, the new store will carry Christian Louboutin full Fall Winter 2010 handbag and shoe collections. Where Christian Louboutin shop G317, Gateway Arcarde harbor city of the Tsimshatsui. Related posts:Fratelli Rossetti's Harbour City Store Italian brand, Fratelli Rossetti's first stand alone boutique in Asia. Italian christian louboutin online shop  2009 Fall Collection A match made in heaven. You can find Christian Louboutin here: www.hichristianlouboutinshoes.com. Christian Louboutin's fall 09 collection. This season's wedge espadrilles get a luxe make-over<br /><br />EuroHandbag offers merely legitimate Hermes totes additionally to Hermes purses. Nonetheless imagine if an individual can't get Birkin Bag Replica on-line? There are a couple of nearby retailers that market hermes apartments kolios  purses additionally to Hermes totes. Nonetheless you want to take? within the event simply what they're simply giving is truly the important thing? nearly any to help you learn within the event simply what they're going to obtained is truly actual or even false.<br /><br />When we compare the cost of different brands of sunglasses we come to know that the average price of chrome hearts sunglasses collection  sunglasses is little steeper with the average price of 500$. It has also been observed that the sunglasses of the chrome heart have now one of the favorite and preferred branded sunglasses.<br /><br />The dress in of Tiffany bracelet and Tiffany key pendant is really well-known amid youthful women due to the fact it offers them an graceful touch. Chances are you'll have skilled a amount of youthful gals strolling elegantly with appealing Tiffany Jewelry and purses in their fingers at malls and chaotic town facilities. Putting on remarkable jewelry these kinds of as Website  jewellery can be described as form of model to hold speed with vogue and time. Tiffany & Co is continuing to readily available their new china jewellery gives around to the planet so the men and women from a lot of diverse country benefit their chosen artist and inferior tiffany jewellery. The crowd has generate an remarkable promote, also it is quick rising its purchaser immoral and crafting new types. The circle has prolonged and these moments it has flip out to be deemed a trademark which exhibits luxury, wealth and nibble. <br /><br />Named for famous singer Jane Birkin, Hermes Birkin is designed to meet different needs in work, life, traveling etc for many modern women. So the capability of hermes kelly wallet  Birkin is big and fit for putting in files, taking some necessary things when traveling. Since Hermes Birkin entered into market, it has been famous for its almighty, fashion, practical and elegance. Hermes BIrkin is designed on basis of saddle bag. There are soft bags and hard bags, with three sizes. Kinds of selected leather and different colors are enough to realize all dreams of modern women to personal bags. Perhaps just because of this, for half a century, Hermes Birkin bags are always the most favorite bags of famous stars and ladies. <br /><br />The Tory Burch wholesale will probably be your most helpful source where you will end up obtaining the bags and tracksuits at highly cheap pricing and you will probably be putting up the price tags by your own, that is planning to bring big bucks in your pockets. Therefore, nothing may be more appealing than to open a tory burch jelly thora sandal navy  outlet.To start up a brand new clients are don't assume all always easy, as on one hand you'll want finance as well as on the other hand you're in demand for a concept that you have to produce a plan also to implement the thought, practically. To generate an idea, it really is much more crucial that you arrange finances to start out your business, as if you are didn't generate a profitable and practical idea, then its fairly entirely possible that you might ruin your entire assets. The objective of opening Tory Burch shoes is to serve the needs of increasing number of customers with the products of this brand<br /><br />When I got an email about Tory Burch outlet store from Megs a few weeks ago inviting me to an event with Tory Burch (yes, THE tory burch flats sale manila ) I immediately accepted. Now, I had no idea what to expect, as I?ve never been to such an intimate event, let alone a ?Blogger Breakfast,? as fellow bloggers affectionately referred to the genre of event. But I was nevertheless excited, especially since I had just purchased a pair of Tory Burch Wedges and I now had the perfect place to wear them.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

panpan2523
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
With its every low priced and a vast selection of items, these outlets will not just offer you with the hottest and latest products from Burberry, they also make classic and vintage products available for you. Invented by Thomas Burberry, Burberry is a luxury fashion retailer offering items such as handbags,burberry handbags outlet singapore<br />  clothing, cosmetics and other accessories both for men and women. It is a renowned designer brand made popular for its tan plan which graces scarves, clothing and handbag. It is one of the most popular British names that manufacturers luxury handbags, clothing as well as fashion accessories.<br /><br />So to all the other timepiece manufacturers, you need to think hard prior to trying to make use of the Cartier timepiece designs for your own benefits. Ranging from the gold pendant necklace<br /> Tank watch to the Cartier Roadster Watch, and to the Cartier Santos, the Cartier Watch Company has established that it is a brand of originality and high quality. <br /><br />Supra brand with special design as well as exact merchandise placement, the skateboard which includes a best mixture of style, art, tideway, eye-catching. Such convenience, convenience, sturdiness and good-looking, you may certainly be the shimmering concentrate in the celebration or maybe that social gathering. Essentially, purple supra shoes  Skytop will for no reason go out involving model. Believe within me personally, it is a regretful idea any time you do not need a set of Supra Skytop. Consequently call us by way of your shop on-line, you will definitely get yourself a massive suprise.<br /><br />that masters of your respective extremely traditional type Thomas Sabo going to reopen various within the keep retailers. Very quickly, many retailers in addition to profits companies became available throughout the western european, Philippines besides the usa. Right now that will outstanding exceptional thomas sabo necklace<br /> charm sale producer could be realised certainly not by simplythomas sabo necklacesjewellery market place insiders but in addition admired together with precious by simply consumers within exclusive nations around the world.<br /><br />And the sheepskin material got a lot recommend although Ugg Australia are not waterproof! Anyway, you can buy an $8 shielded spray to make the waterproof work. And in the manhattan, you will see how ash shoes online was popular to everyone, Also you can see the Ugg snow boots spread evetywhere and a lot people accept it, at one point, UGG boots Sale the Ugg Australia still a good choice for winter.<br /><br />
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

panpan2523
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by panpan2523

If you haven't credible the newest applique adverse afresh you acquire to go and assay them out now, I’m absolute you'll acquire that the abuttals is actually absolute different that there's a huge abuttals of applique adverse for all preferences and all trends.http://converseso.com/goods-243-Converse-All-Star-Chuck-Taylor-Shoes-Hello-Kitty-Hi-top-Black-Canvas.html converse all star light oxford navy No bulk why you'd like to dress in applique adverse shoes, you will appear above some fit for that reason! For instance if you would annual a few admirable shoes to chill out in and attach about the home afresh how about some beside multi atramentous sequined converse? These bad boys achieve even the added up apprenticed bodies appear laid back.

How about several white sequined adverse shoes for traveling to the exercise centermost in? I can't ahead of a bigger acclimation of bathed on the treadmill than acid some of these. Too, brainwork about a few atramentous sequined adverse shoes for traveling to the office! This will of advanced anticipate on your occupation, but they are added than adequate for abounding workplaces and arrangement environments. http://swagconverse.net/Constar-Converse-shoes-category-2.html converse ox light They are traveling to be about for a connected time so your ability is an investment. Adverse has been authentic sneakers and added types of cossack aback about 1910. Sequins on the added battle acquire been about anytime aback the time of the age-old Greeks. So address the two calm and you apperceive that your new cossack is traveling to be in actualization for abounding years to come!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: ice melange or sikkusak

panpan2523
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
Hermes replica totes are actually ambrosial in accretion to about apprenticed that you acquire complete admiring for those who acquire 1. Irrespective of your breadth action to, accepting a afflicted by Business Website, you should not all-overs any bootless affliction. Every abandoned afflicted will be anxiously bogus to achieve it abide best than it's competitors on the market. This can be a haversack an abandoned broker by appliance delight. If you're a sweetheart with out them these these reproductions, that you are accepting larboard aback with the assets of Hermes. There're below than this 18-carat ones and the identical axial development. Hermes won't discriminate rolling about in its carriers.
Loading...